• Before you proselytize here, we would like to see your Taycan in the picture thread :wink:

    Otherwise Andreas knows what he has to do

    If Andreas asks, I'll be happy to send him a photo of the invoice, vehicle registration document and ID card lying on the front flap of my Taycan.

    Otherwise, I would ask you to remain objective and constructive.

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  • Before you proselytize here, we would like to see your Taycan in the picture thread :wink:

    Otherwise Andreas knows what he has to do

    If Andreas asks, I'll be happy to send him a photo of the invoice, vehicle registration document and ID card lying on the front flap of my Taycan.

    Otherwise, I would ask you to remain objective and constructive.

    I guess your name says it all...

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  • Anyone who wants/is able to pay for premium products from Germany will not bother with the alternatives from the USA/China.

    Yes, well, you can repeat that 100 times up and down because that's how it is in your own world.

    But this position cannot be imposed on all Porsche drivers and buyers. There are some who see things differently, and this part of reality will also have to be endured.

    I'm right there with you. As a Porsche driver, I also think of other manufacturers first when I think of electric cars and not Porsche. The e-cars from the Far East can already keep up well in this area and will even overtake the German brands in the foreseeable future.

    With E, the development lead that Germany had in cars has practically shrunk to zero within a few years.

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  • It's still a complete mystery to me what is supposed to be good about the e-cars from China and also Tesla.

    I think most people are replicating "hearsay"; my Tesla Model X was the worst car I've ever driven.

    Sure, the China e-cars are cheap, but that's a subsidized market distortion.

    It gets exciting - as with Tesla - when I need a garage.

    Or if a manufacturer goes bankrupt due to the market shakeout and the car no longer runs.

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  • The e-cars from the Far East can already keep up well in this area and will even overtake the German brands in the foreseeable future.

    With E, the development lead in cars that Germany had has practically shrunk to zero within a few years.

    Just 4-5 years ago, this meant that all premium and luxury manufacturers would no longer be able to achieve a premium price through their brand characteristics and would go under. Because an electric car is an electric car.

    The facts and markets speak a completely different language. Rolls Royce will convert all models by 2030, because the Spectre is doing very well from 450k. It's an i7 chassis, by the way. My BMW i4 is a typical BMW. It sells very well. 44% of the model range is electric. The Taycan is the bright star in the entire electric sky and Porsche is now converting one model series after the other year after year. Mercedes has just launched the electric G-Class and the Maserati is on the market.

    The reason why foreign brands are having such a hard time is very simple: firstly, because the German brands have never really had such an outstanding technical lead. Secondly, because customers don't buy for that reason. They buy because of the brand values. Who doesn't remember the Lexus LS 400, which was significantly better than an S-Class and won all the tests at the time? Nobody bought it.

    The situation is different in China, where national pride now rules and foreign competitors will have a hard time in the merciless domestic competition between brands. On the other hand, authoritarian China and its products are being viewed more and more critically in many parts of the world. Those of you who have had to deal with the topic of ESG professionally will certainly know that an electric car from China will not only cause difficulties with E, but also with G in the future. China is aware of the acceptance problems, which is why they disguise themselves as European brands such as Lotus, MG, Volvo, Polestar and Smart. In the USA, however, they bite on granite. Sales in this country are also manageable. The price gap cannot be closed.


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  • i have never owned or bought a car from a foreign brand. my first car was a beetle. like the chinese, i have a bit of national pride and of course i know that the german manufacturers also install many foreign products.

    i have been driving large limousines for over 25 years. i always knew about the high depreciation and therefore bought annual cars at the beginning, or leased demonstrators. when i switched to porsche about 20 years ago, my bmw salesman at the time said that we would probably not meet again, to which i replied, och in three years i will certainly come back for a comparison. he just said that once you've switched to porsche you rarely come back. well i've never been back. well i may be a bit extremely porsche crazy, but if i'm looking for another car it's more likely to be an s class or a ferrari, but it hasn't occurred to me to look at tesla or ever lexus, let alone the current chinese products.

    the new electric market may also appeal to new groups of buyers. but porsche is showing that they are continuing to focus on luxury. they don't need to compare themselves with chinese cars because quality is a basic requirement in the league, but not an overriding purchase criterion.

    for porsche, the high loss of value does not play such a big role, only indirectly via the pz, which are more likely to run into difficulties. the secondary market for e-cars is currently limited to countries with an e-infrastructure. nothing goes to the eastern bloc.

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  • Think quite aptly described - "the impacts are getting closer"....... Could be uncomfortable for the German premium brands......

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    Ab April 2018: GT3.2 mit Flügel

  • yes, that's right, that's why i see the "flight" even further into the premium sector as a good strategy. audi and vw will have to fight enough with the new ones. porsche can rely on its good name. and if you are willing to spend 200k and more on a car, you also want something exclusive and to be perceived. that works well with porsche, the external perception of the porsche brand is consistently positive. lambo and ferrari are much less accepted by the population, although ferrari is doing much better than lambo.

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  • I also think that Porsche and Mercedes are still best positioned. But I doubt whether this high-price/luxury positioning will also work for electric cars - I'm rather skeptical. I think China is simply ahead technologically.......

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    Ab April 2018: GT3.2 mit Flügel